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Science > Electromagnetics > Re: Expelled: I...
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Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you're

by maxwell <spsi@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jun 29, 2008 at 02:28 PM

On Jun 27, 9:21=A0am, John C. Polasek <jpola...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> ...
> >A charge is the source of E and H which are orthogonal and propagate
> >independently from it as given by the Lienard-Wiechert field
> >equations. I think that's all Bill is saying which isn't wrong, is it?
>
> You are right; retardation is adequately represented by the
> Lienard-Wiechert field, which I also see referenced in my 1962
> Panofsky Philips. They are much cleaner and simpler than Jefimenko's.
>
> This topic is of little practical effect, retardation being a very
> slippery item, and there is enough other disinformation going around
> to bother with these sophomoric maunderings.
>
> For example, it is unconscionable that there are physicists today
> still embedded in cgs, a legacy from their professors with these
> consequences:
> ...
> =A0 =A05. It is not possible in cgs to intelligently discuss a vacuum
capa=
citor.
>
> Enough. More dismal is the idea that most students do not even know
> the difference between cgs and rmks or SI which have assigned the
> properties of eps0 and mu0 to the vacuum.
>
> The main idea is that there are forces that can store energy in the
> vacuum which energy then turns around and becomes a source itself in a
> completely reciprocal fa****on. And this, without the intervention of
> charges.
>
You are comparing 'apples & oranges'.  The Lienard-Wiechert potential
(not field) is a calculation of the retarded possible EM effects
generated by a POINT charge as might be experienced by another point
charge at another distant point (needed for the approximation used in
the derivation).  It is simpler than Jefimenko's approach as Jefimenko
consistently uses electric charge density throughout and rejects the
phony limit approximation of subsequent point charges (the Dirac delta
'function').

Retardation is not a 'frill' added onto Maxwell's Equations - it is
the fundamental feature of EM that distinguishes EM from Newtonian
mechanics.  Unlike Lorenz, Clerk-Maxwell could NOT handle retardation
as he was introducing a field theory that is only definined at ONE
point in space AND time - all the retardation effects from the source
charges are hidden (lost?) in the calculation of the point field
variables.

Your dismissal of cgs is typical of the 'modern' approach which throws
away the physics & concentrates only on the math; even Clerk-Maxwell
screwed up in 1865 by omitting im****tant factors of c in his most
im****tant EM paper.  But then setting c =3D 1 is sooo elegant, right?
It's only a (physical) constant!

Your SI approach is truly magical.  Simply by changing the units you
are able to conjure real effects out of nothing; in other words, the
vacuum is truly NO thing, it is not an invisible 'spring mattress'
that can absorb energy (another ontological fallacy of modernism) and
release it when required.  Any attempt to develop a theory of EM
without acknowledging the reality of the point electron and its finite
electric charge is worthy of a life-time's free admission to the
Magicians' Hall of Fame or the awarding of the next Fields Medal
(delicious irony here).
 




 75 Posts in Topic:
Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you're fi
Benj <bjacoby@[EMAIL P  2008-06-18 17:59:37 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
Uncle Al <UncleAl0@[EM  2008-06-18 18:15:33 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Tom M" <tmi  2008-06-18 22:01:13 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Greg Neill" &l  2008-06-18 23:01:01 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Vince Morgan"   2008-06-19 14:13:44 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
Jim Black <fmlast3@[EM  2008-06-18 19:08:46 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
oriel36 <geraldkellehe  2008-06-18 20:13:33 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
Damaeus <no-mail@[EMAI  2008-06-19 16:22:49 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
Benj <bjacoby@[EMAIL P  2008-06-19 09:38:47 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
Richard Henry <pomerad  2008-06-19 12:06:49 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Bill Miller" &  2008-06-20 20:48:24 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Phil Holman" &  2008-06-20 16:33:59 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Bill Miller" &  2008-06-21 15:38:55 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Spaceman" <  2008-06-21 11:46:20 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Phil Holman" &  2008-06-21 19:41:44 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
Damaeus <no-mail@[EMAI  2008-06-23 20:45:26 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
Jim Black <tramspap@[E  2008-06-19 12:20:46 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
Igor <thoovler@[EMAIL   2008-06-19 17:46:08 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Bill Miller" &  2008-06-20 20:38:37 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Vince Morgan"   2008-06-24 10:54:55 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
Benj <bjacoby@[EMAIL P  2008-06-25 22:32:38 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Bill Miller" &  2008-06-26 17:43:54 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
blackhead <larryharson  2008-06-27 06:35:23 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
John C. Polasek <jpola  2008-06-27 12:21:47 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
Benj <bjacoby@[EMAIL P  2008-06-27 08:12:05 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
Benj <bjacoby@[EMAIL P  2008-06-20 15:30:24 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Vince Morgan"   2008-06-21 11:20:36 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Timo A. Nieminen&qu  2008-06-21 11:44:51 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Bill Miller" &  2008-06-21 15:54:01 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Spaceman" <  2008-06-21 12:04:12 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Bill Miller" &  2008-06-21 19:35:15 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Spaceman" <  2008-06-21 16:34:46 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Bill Miller" &  2008-06-23 17:52:16 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Spaceman" <  2008-06-23 14:15:47 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Don Kelly" <  2008-06-23 21:18:15 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Bill Miller" &  2008-06-24 14:24:58 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Spaceman" <  2008-06-24 11:08:03 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Szczepan Białek&quo  2008-06-24 19:50:09 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Don Kelly" <  2008-06-25 06:03:34 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Bill Miller" &  2008-06-25 16:41:13 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Spaceman" <  2008-06-25 12:57:41 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Greg Neill" &l  2008-06-25 13:12:59 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Spaceman" <  2008-06-25 13:19:18 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Greg Neill" &l  2008-06-25 13:40:58 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Spaceman" <  2008-06-25 13:56:18 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
kl31n <kl31n@[EMAIL PR  2008-06-22 14:48:28 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Bill Miller" &  2008-06-23 19:22:16 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
blackhead <larryharson  2008-06-27 11:32:33 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
maxwell <spsi@[EMAIL P  2008-06-29 14:28:07 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
John C. Polasek <jpola  2008-06-29 23:55:42 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Don Kelly" <  2008-06-21 21:57:54 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Timo A. Nieminen&qu  2008-06-22 05:52:17 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Timo A. Nieminen&qu  2008-06-22 11:14:32 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Bill Miller" &  2008-06-23 18:33:50 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
maxwell <spsi@[EMAIL P  2008-06-30 22:26:05 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
John C. Polasek <jpola  2008-07-01 10:09:29 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
blackhead <larryharson  2008-07-02 09:45:25 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
John C. Polasek <jpola  2008-07-02 15:27:53 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Timo A. Nieminen&qu  2008-06-24 05:52:17 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Bill Miller" &  2008-06-25 18:32:46 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Androcles" <  2008-06-25 19:49:20 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Vince Morgan"   2008-06-26 11:50:01 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
John C. Polasek <jpola  2008-06-25 22:25:22 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
maxwell <spsi@[EMAIL P  2008-07-01 11:09:34 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
Benj <bjacoby@[EMAIL P  2008-06-23 13:55:24 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
maxwell <spsi@[EMAIL P  2008-06-26 08:01:13 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Timo A. Nieminen&qu  2008-06-27 06:55:08 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Bill Miller" &  2008-06-27 17:23:50 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
John C. Polasek <jpola  2008-06-30 20:08:08 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Bill Miller" &  2008-07-01 17:28:17 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
John C. Polasek <jpola  2008-07-01 15:32:08 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Bill Miller" &  2008-07-01 21:40:52 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
John C. Polasek <jpola  2008-07-01 22:04:07 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
"Bill Miller" &  2008-07-02 15:44:25 
Re: Expelled: If you don't believe in holy physics dogma ; you'r
maxwell <spsi@[EMAIL P  2008-06-27 08:37:03 

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tan12V112 Fri Nov 21 3:41:21 CST 2008.