In article <18212b3b-161c-40c4-861b-8d1e41436ba4
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, keith.p.walsh@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
says...
> On 7 Aug, 15:08, Richard Herring <junk@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >
> > Only "appears" to you. Your question is so broad that the answer is
> > trivially "yes". =A0What are you _really_ asking about?
> >
>=20
> I think that a more insightful respondent to my enquiry might have
> been able to discard any trivial interpretations allowed by its
> generality and quite easily have identified those possibilities for
> which the accurate answer is not trivial at all.
>=20
> Of course I understand that the proven influence of, for example, tv
> pictures on the human psyche falls within the broadest scope of my
> question.
>=20
> However, to use this as an excuse for simply ignoring other less
> obvious possibilities implicit in the same question is not really what
> I was looking for; i.e. neither intelligent, rational nor scientific
> (is that Four?).
>=20
> In the simplest terms, it appears that the electromagnetic field can
> be manipulated in order to induce electrical currents in electrical
> conductors. And human neurological tissue is a particular type of
> electrical conductor.
>=20
In the simplest terms this is true. With a suitably complex array of=20
magnets it should be possible to induce currents local to certain=20
regions of the brain. Of course, to do this with any precision would=20
probably require the array to be pretty close to the surface of the=20
patient/client/victim's skull. Think of it as a big tin hat applied=20
directly to the head rather than some mysterious electormagnetic ray=20
projector situated in th eblack van parked down the street.
Also, in the simplest terms, it is true that local stimulation of the=20
brain (usually via fine metal electrodes inserted directly into the=20
brain) can affect behaviour. With humans, I believe that it has to date=20
been limited to inducing certain sensory perceptions and emotional=20
changes - and is usually carried out as part of brain surgery - but it=20
is a fairly 'blunt weapon'. Even with accurately positioned electrodes,=20
positioned and re-positioned, with current=20
technology/understanding/experience it may be possible to make someone=20
feel hungry, but you can't _choose_ to make them feel like they want a=20
large chunk of Wendsleydale cheese (for example).
> And so, if it can be agreed that, according to the established
> principles of scientific understanding, only way to establish the
> extent to which the human neurological system might be manipulated
> remotely using electromagnetic signals is by carrying out the
> experimental investigations necessary to find out, then would you be
> able to tell me if you know of any such investigations ever having
> been carried out?
From my experience in the world of research physics, I feel sure that
at=20
more than one time in the past (or present), more than one researcher=20
has had government funding to attempt this sort of research. Of course,=20
people have also been giuven significant funding to research star-wars,=20
exploding (or was it poisonous) cigars for undesired presidents,=20
incendary-bats (trained to hide under the "enemy's" vehicles), and=20
wierdnesses including para-psychology, telekinesis, and time travel.=20
The point being, that a number of governments have large amounts of=20
money for nefarious research projects; teh people holing the purse-
strings often have very little understanding of even the most
well-known=20
laws of nature; and researchers are sometimes willing to accept a grant=20
to research almost any ridiculous thing (after all - there are bills to=20
pay).
>=20
> Remember I'm not asking whether or not it has been proved that people
> can see tv pictures. I'm asking if anyone knows whether experiments
> have ever been carried out to determine whether electromagnetic
> signals, and particularly those using wavelengths outside the range of
> visible light, can be used to influence the thought processes of
> individuals, perhaps without their realising it?
>=20
Well - I guess this would be the ultimate payback for such research. So=20
it probably has been looked at at some stage. However, the chance that=20
it would ever succeed appears very small to me, the chance that the=20
technology exists at present seems vastly more unlikely. I think you=20
woud notice the big tin hat with the array of superconducting magnets
as=20
soon as it got close to your head!
> And if not, why not?
>=20
> (It might help if you try to imagine what you would have to do to
> demonstrate that, to the best of our knowledge and ability, it is NOT
> possible to achieve such a thing.)
OK - 4 reasons why I believe it is not possible...
1)=09Any sort of remote brain stimulation would appear to require=20
accurately placed locally induced currents. The induced currents=20
required to affect the brain would be small, but the magnetic field=20
array to produce them would be large and would need to be situated very=20
near to the brain. If you tried to operate an array further from the=20
brain it would have to be correspondingly bigger (it is a bit like=20
optical resolution in this sense), and you would also have to take into=20
account all magnetic and electrically conducting materials in the=20
vicinity of the subject. In other words - the tin-foil hat really would=20
protect you.
2) Even if the technology and practical ability to construct such a=20
device existed (and I doubt it as in [1] above), to date, only a very=20
limited range of behavioural changes have been demonstrated - even by=20
direct brain stimulation. We still don't know how the brain functions
in=20
any detail, so the ability to tune into someones brain and zap them to=20
"love the chairman", or "take the next left turn off the highway" or=20
"choose Pepsi over Coke" appears very unlikely.
3) I have doubts that any such research could be carried out in secret.=20
It wiould require significant development in a range of areas:=20
superconductivity, brain physiology, psychology, engineering and=20
computer control, to name just a few. The 'secret' research=20
establishments don't run in a vaccuum - so while developing an advanced=20
material, or a new guidance system independantly of universities,
public=20
government, and private research establishments is possible - I doubt=20
that the vast amount of work needed for brain manipulation (even if=20
possible) could be carried out in secret. Unless, of course, they found=20
the device already built at Roswell!
4) If we had brain control, I wouldn't have to write this - I could
just=20
flick a switch and convince you that we dont exist (bwa-ha-haa).
But in all seriousness - I think it is as likely as anti-gravity and=20
zero-point energy generators.
Cheers
Mike
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